Last day seeing the Sunrise...
Today's our last day on placement at Sunrise Drug and Alcohol Rehabilitation Centre... these 4 weeks have gone so fast. I've had an awesome time getting to know staff and 'clients', its been interesting seeing both side of the Rehab experience... Most of all I've loved the opportunity to share Jesus with the guys, not all are open to accepting it as truth, but many are searching on some level and its this Spiritual journey with them that I will hold onto as one of the most valuable experiences of my time here. The changes in their outlook on life is so inspiring and I hope we will see more as we come back to visit them!
This morning I shared the following with the guys:
"I'll never forget the trouble, the utter lostness, the taste of ashes, the poison I've swallowed.
I remember it all - oh, how well I remember - the feeling of hitting the bottom.
But there's one other thing I remember, and remembering, I keep a grip on hope:
God's loyal love couldn't have run out, his merciful love couldn't have dried up.
They're created new every morning. How great your faithfulness!
I'm sticking with God (I say it over and over). He's all I've got left."
Lamentations 3:19-24 MSG
I'm praying they'll each find an understanding of the extent of God's love for them!
BTW - Pete and I are disgustingly sicky at the moment (Pete has a really shocking cough and I've got bad tonsilitis), please pray for our healing! thanks ;o)
13 comments:
It's a natural human response to hope that someone recovers from an illness, as I hope you do.
It's another thing to pray for your healing - or anyone's healing for that matter. I mean, who are we to presume God's will in these matters? It's kind of arrogant, isn't it, to request God heal this person or that person, or to request God supply this need or that need. After all, we have neither the overall nor detailed knowledge of each the state of each person in the world. Which we would need to even begin to properly prioritise our prayer. And if we leave someone out, as we are bound to do, isn't it sort of mean not to pray for people in need? But there are 6 billion people on the planet - who can sort that out?
Isn't our only valid prayer one of requesting God perform His will, and won't He do that anyway? After all it's His will, not His hopes or wishes, that we are referring to. If God can't carry out His will (sooner or later), then He is not as powerful as people say He is.
And does God need us to continually pester Him with requests? It looks like a game, doesn't it, where we try to guess what we should pray about. Don't you feel like saying let's stop playing games, God, and let's have a real relationship with you. A relationship that is not merely private, because then it can't be verified by others, but one that is truly corporate and independent of ancient writings of primitive Hebrew/Arab/other tribes (name your favourite source of scripture).
Why doesn't God write His will across the sky in plain King James English?
Matthew 7:8
"For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."
Matthew 21:22
"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."
Luke 11:10
"For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."
John 9:15
"Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. "He put mud on my eyes," the man replied, "and I washed, and now I see."
John 16:24
"Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete."
James 4:3
"When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures."
1 John 3:22
"and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him."
Jesus said in Matt 10:8;
"Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."
Did He command it? You said;
"If God can't carry out His will (sooner or later), then He is not as powerful as people say He is."
So which one is true - I've asked and recieved - people we've prayed for have been healed! Jesus commanded it - He enabled it!
Don't doubt - believe! You can only ask!
2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Probably not the place for the healing debate to be happening David - though I'd be interested as to where your journey has led you that you would be responding in such a manner to a simple request from friends asking for prayer.
Pete & Jo - please know I've been praying for you. Ministry is hard. Particularly when you are ministering to people on the margins. As someone with experience working in D&A and also Homeless shelters, I'll give you a piece of advice my doctor gave to me (when I was fighting off virus after virus) - a healthy body comes from rest. You need to rest, particularly when you are going to be working around people who are unwell (as a social worker, a chaplain, a teacher, a nurse, a doctor the likes often do) - your immune system needs time to recover and strengthen... so rest up okay?!
And remember - "Come to me all you who are weary & burdened and I will give you rest" (Matt 11:28)
You have done a great work at Sunrise, and God will continue to use you!
Love to you both xxoo
To answer your query, Sarah, about my response to a simple prayer request, I can only re-phrase the above sentiments differently.
First, I'm not critiquing the general social good of helping and caring for others when they are in need.
However, I don't see prayer as being in this category. The only practical aspect to prayer that I can see is that it can be a method of reflection and thinking in order to formulate clearer action plans. In this respect, other techniques such as meditation can be equally applicable.
Other than that, phrases like "I'm praying for you" are really just Christianese for expressing concern and interest in another's plight or situation.
As far as the metaphysical aspects, of prayer go, I've come to the conclusion that they are complete nonsense.
Whether or not you believe in a God, and if so, whether or not you claim a "personal relationship" with such, you cannot claim to know if you are influencing God's will, nor can you claim to be able to discern God's will.
No-one can know God's will. There is no known method or set of techniques that are generally acceptable as verifying God's will. I mean proper verification in that if you and I independently employ such methods they would produce the same clear guidance and instruction from God.
With only "personal conviction" to go on, it really is arrogance to jump from that to a belief that one understands God's will.
This is an conclusion I have made based on reading about, observing and interacting with people of faith, mainly Christians. I submit in evidence the fact that there is so much diversity and contradiction in matters of faith - entirely what you would expect if people are really following the dictates of their own conscience, and their own experience, rather than acting under the influence of an external entity such as God.
You only see prayer as a method of reflection! - then you're missing out!! As Sarah said, this really isn't a good place for discussion.
Prayer is a 2 way conversation if you choose to actually listen - hence you CAN know some of God's will, He does reveal what He want's you to know or what you need to know.
It is not arrogance to say you understand God's will but ignorance if you don't bother listening. Try it, if you think you have in the past then maybe you should try it again, He's speaking...
You have come to a conclusion that prayer is nonsense based on metaphysical aspects, why?! God can't be contained in a box and cannot be reached through objective studies of material reality!
You 'conclude' that prayer is nonsense where we 'know' that prayer is a very powerful 'unexplanable' force (read the last bit of my first comment again)
Hearing voices inside your head giving you instructions is a sign of mental illness, not God talking to you, Simon. Get that checked out by a medical professional immediately.
Are you saying you are unaware of inconsistency in interpreting God's will?
I think you are presenting the marketing hype, not the day-to-day reality.
Who said anything about hearing voices!!
It's very convenient for you, if God only conveys His will in private messages to individuals, where the message is specifically for the individual.
That way, no-one can cross-verify whether they are really receiving God's will, or whether it's just the social/church/SA-power structure conditioning kicking in.
Of course, if God doesn't speak corporately, you lose the useful group confirmation process for determining His will.
It's all about a personal relationship with God, isn't? I can understand why you wouldn't bother about corporate behaviour, after all, you have inherited the influence of individualism from a western culture.
I can get all the individualism I want just by living in Australia. It's everywhere, including SA church services.
David, its obvious you have issues, everything you say is a jumble of judgements and negativity about something that has gone on for you.... I guess thats what disturbs me, you obviously have a story to tell and I agree with Sarah that this is not the place to be debating or spouting your own 'stuff'. Especially since most of what you say is completely unrelated to what I am sharing.
Remember back - I posted about my last day at Sunrise.
David, as I've told you before, if you want to spout your brand of theology all over my site, it is definitely not welcome - you insulot my intelligence and that of my friends, so I ask you again, please do not make comments here. Next time I will delete them.
I ask you to keep exploring the things of God and hope that you might find the answers your looking for.
My last suggestion, if you MUST spout on about your theology, start your own blog!!! It might provide some healing for the pain you feel.
Jesus, thank you that you do heal the sick. Please heal pete and jo. In Jesus name be healed guys!
Jo, I know you to be a caring and intelligent woman. You have floored me with your response to David. He is not asking unreasonable questions. Where is your care and compassion for people I know you have? I have seen comments from David as he talks and engages with unhealthy models of ministry. (which is something we should all work through). I am not saying that there is anything wrong with your theology but it looks like David is trying to see whether you are like the people who possibly damaged him or taught bad theology, and through questions he is trying to ascertain that. By saying there is no space here, you are saying that there is no room for seekers or difference of opinion. It’s easy to accept the crying person rather than someone who is outraged at ungodly behaviour or just someone who is angry. I have seen Jason’s from Brunswick’s blog and he is in respectful conversation with David. (I assume David is the same person.) God bless you as you continue in your out training!
Hi anonymous. Do I know you? I haven't met anyone by that name...
David has had a long journey of commenting on the websites of my friends and respected collegues - each time showing he is neither interested in sharing in real debate or in respecting the feelings of those he speaks to. I have spoken to him several times about the private pain that is fueling these comments, but he ignores anything remotely personal.
My only conclusion, despite David being a broken man with real issues - is that his moral superiority is a barrier to truly reaching him. This barrier needs to be addressed - we cannot journey together if David feels he is above me.
Would you have Jesus stay quiet in the face of Pharisaic opposition? Sometimes a direct challenge (rebuke) is what is required. Most Salvos I know shy away from that, but Jesus didn't!
In closing, my blog contains mostly information about my personal journey and viewpoints, I aim not seeking to force these upon others or set up a theological debating ground. David is not opposed to finding other outlets for his views, and I have continued to speak to him in these other arenas. Bless you as you seek to reach him too...
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